atrosa Posted June 28, 2019 Report Share Posted June 28, 2019 For me that is at the top of my budget once i add ferry inspection and everything i don't yet know about ac ownership. I think for the original poster it looks like it can fill tje mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmi Posted June 29, 2019 Report Share Posted June 29, 2019 4 hours ago, ShawnM said: Ok, I'll start this conversation......AGAIN. After the seller placed this beautiful 2014 Astore up for sale with the initial price of $100K (a phenomenal prices for this aircraft) he decided he wanted to take it out for one more flight. Not his best idea to date. On its last flight the owner had a hard landing and collapsed the nose gear....everyone knows what happens next, right? It has been repaired and nearly airworthy again. New NLG, new prop, I was told a gearbox "inspection" was done but it needed another one for some reason. The plane is just up the road from me in Inverness, about a 20 minute flight north. I was possibly going to go look at it with another forum member but that has been put on hold. The plane was perfect BEFORE its last flight with no damage history and the price was out of this world at $100K. Now with all new parts AND DAMAGE HISTORY the seller wants more, go figure. Indeed , sad story - similar to that Arion Lightning that got busted while landing at Oshkosh just before being put up for sale ... Man I am truly impressed with your insider knowledge... either pretty much 90% of all LSAs for sale are within 90 mile radius of your location or you got some incredible contacts out there ... I wonder if there is some dark past history associated with my N184WA Sting S4, that you may know about 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnM Posted June 29, 2019 Report Share Posted June 29, 2019 10 hours ago, Warmi said: I wonder if there is some dark past history associated with my N184WA Sting S4, that you may know about 🙂 I'm not hearing anything at the moment but let's give it a minute or two. It's not "what" you know but "who" you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity26 Posted June 29, 2019 Report Share Posted June 29, 2019 I have 2 airplanes that come to mind. They were both listed as "No known damage history". I was searching the N number and found pictures of the Glasair just below the surface of a lake/river where the pilot landed it after losing power just after take-off. 90% of the airplane was submerged, including the engine and cabin, only the top of the tail was not dunked. The second was a Piper with "no known damage history" although there were a half dozen pictures of the airplane where it had been tied down during a hurricane, torn loose by the winds , gear collapsed, and wing damaged after being tossed around like a toy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnM Posted June 29, 2019 Report Share Posted June 29, 2019 There needs to be a “hotline” or website where people can report this stuff. Like the TSA, “if you see something, say something”. It’s sad but there are many people out there who may not be 100% honest when they need to be. I know, call me crazy, but they’re out there. This seller is not one of them but it does happen. Just own it and put it in your ad, it’ll save many, many buyers a lot of time. I personally know of aircraft, planes and helicopters, that have been wrecked and were scooped up and brought quietly back the the hangar without anyone being notified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipper Posted June 29, 2019 Report Share Posted June 29, 2019 46 minutes ago, ShawnM said: I personally know of aircraft, planes and helicopters, that have been wrecked and were scooped up and brought quietly back the the hangar without anyone being notified. I’m sure it’s been done but wouldn’t any damage be discovered in a good pre-buy inspection? IMHO it would be one heck of a coincidence to have an unscrupulous seller AND mechanic in cahoots. A buyer will choose his own person to inspect it wouldn’t he. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity26 Posted June 29, 2019 Report Share Posted June 29, 2019 Skipper, Where do you look? You would have to literally take the airplane apart to check everything. I think that the first thing would be to check the nose gear and firewall attachments. If the broke the nose gear and replaced it, good enough. If they neglected to see that it cracked stuff on the firewall, you could be in big trouble. There are too many places that you need to check and Sellers are not happy about someone taking their airplane apart searching for stuff. It gets expensive to do a comprehensive inspection ... not much different form an annual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipper Posted June 29, 2019 Report Share Posted June 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Velocity26 said: Skipper, Where do you look? You would have to literally take the airplane apart to check everything. I think that the first thing would be to check the nose gear and firewall attachments. If the broke the nose gear and replaced it, good enough. If they neglected to see that it cracked stuff on the firewall, you could be in big trouble. There are too many places that you need to check and Sellers are not happy about someone taking their airplane apart searching for stuff. It gets expensive to do a comprehensive inspection ... not much different form an annual. I understand the difference between a pre-buy inspection and an annual inspection. But even in a pre-buy a knowledgeable person would be able to find things such as doublers, or non manufacturers installation etc. Most inspectors follow a prescribed format starting with the most expensive item, the engine and proceed from there. If in the first or second place they find problems they should stop any further looking and tell you to walk away. One doesn’t need to take the plane apart but the inspection panels open up a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity26 Posted June 29, 2019 Report Share Posted June 29, 2019 I am just saying that, when you start into a very comprehensive pre-buy inspection, the lines blur with an annual. If the annual is getting close, you might have well have just have the annual done for the pre-buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtk Posted June 29, 2019 Report Share Posted June 29, 2019 True about the pre-buy being close to an annual, but I think Skipper is saying that a pre-but should stop well short of an annual of major issues are found in just looking in the inspection panels. (This provided that nothing looks out-of -sorts with the logbook.) i once had a seller who offered to have the annual done as part of thenpurchase and I could review the notes in lieu of the pre-but inspection. I politely declined as I wanted someone I paid to be honest with me (I.e. someone like Necco) and give me the warning bells well before spending a lot of time, money, and effort. I agree with ShawnM about wishing sellers would be more forthright about a plane’s history. Someone’s life could be depending on it! But like anything, there are sellers that won’t disclose the true history, and thus, “caveat emptor” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnM Posted June 30, 2019 Report Share Posted June 30, 2019 My own pre buy inspection was an annual. The seller sent me a copy of all 3 log books, airframe, engine and prop, and after a thorough inspection of all those we (a LRSM and my self) flew down for a quick look at the plane. Everything looked as it should and I left him a deposit. I scheduled a full pre buy exam with a written understanding that it I found anything I didn’t like I was walking away and my deposit was refundable. My LSRM decided it would be best to do an annual as the pre buy (the plane was less than 2 months from annual) as that would basically reveal just about anything that was hiding and assure him it was safe for the flight back home. The only thing we didn’t do was change the oil. The seller was burning 100LL and we were going to drain the fuel when we got it back to my home airport. Then we would change the oil and remove the oil canister for cleaning. There are many times when an incident or accident can easily be covered up if it was light damage or the parts can simply be replaced. Unless you know what to look for or what to ask about log book entries you may never know it. These days planes can be repaired better than new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnM Posted June 30, 2019 Report Share Posted June 30, 2019 8 hours ago, Skipper said: I’m sure it’s been done but wouldn’t any damage be discovered in a good pre-buy inspection? IMHO it would be one heck of a coincidence to have an unscrupulous seller AND mechanic in cahoots. A buyer will choose his own person to inspect it wouldn’t he. Always do the most thorough pre buy you can with YOUR OWN MECHANIC. Never anyone the seller recommends. If you are fairly certain you are going to purchase, as I was, do as much of an annual as you can or feel comfortable with. If a seller wouldn’t allow me or my mechanic free reign to do or inspect anything and everything we wanted, I’d personally walk away. If you are an honest seller you have nothing to hide, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmi Posted June 30, 2019 Report Share Posted June 30, 2019 If a part gets replaced and it is done properly where you can’t tell the difference then it wouldn’t matter to me - frankly , that’s added value to me since it will most likely last longer than if it was the original but ,yeah, it all needs to be documented. I had my upper front gear strut replaced because it cracked at the weld point due to vibration ( the nut was loose and the strut was vibrating on takeoff ) and it got replaced with a newer strut design that is completely solid without any welds - but I have it documented in the book along with pictures of the weld that cracked , how it cracked etc ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipper Posted June 30, 2019 Report Share Posted June 30, 2019 11 hours ago, Velocity26 said: I am just saying that, when you start into a very comprehensive pre-buy inspection, the lines blur with an annual. If the annual is getting close, you might have well have just have the annual done for the pre-buy. I’m of the opinion that a licensed mechanic cannot sign a contract to do an annual inspection of an aircraft for anyone other than the owner. He can do a purchase inspection only. It would be smart to have the person you will be using for your annuals to do the pre buy inspection as he already knows the airplane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity26 Posted June 30, 2019 Report Share Posted June 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Skipper said: I’m of the opinion that a licensed mechanic cannot sign a contract to do an annual inspection of an aircraft for anyone other than the owner. He can do a purchase inspection only. It would be smart to have the person you will be using for your annuals to do the pre buy inspection as he already knows the airplane. You may be technically correct, I am not aware, but I can tell you that it is done all the time, including by Shawn above. All that happens is that the Seller agrees to having the annual done as the inspection. Or, once you own the airplane, and have possession of the logs, your mechanic can make the entry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipper Posted June 30, 2019 Report Share Posted June 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, Velocity26 said: You may be technically correct, I am not aware, but I can tell you that it is done all the time, including by Shawn above. All that happens is that the Seller agrees to having the annual done as the inspection. Or, once you own the airplane, and have possession of the logs, your mechanic can make the entry. Seeing as how this thread has been severely high jacked already: This is a very good video on the subject of buying a LSA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrosa Posted June 30, 2019 Report Share Posted June 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, Skipper said: Seeing as how this thread has been severely high jacked already: This is a very good video on the subject of buying a LSA Squak 7500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipper Posted June 30, 2019 Report Share Posted June 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, atrosa said: Squak 7500 OOOPPPS. Couldn’t get the video to display correctly. But for anyone considering buying an LSA I would encourage them to watch it. Believe you can find it at AVsport.org then go to the webinar page and it’s #8 titled “ How to buy an LSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyAgain Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 Welcome. I just did what you're about to do. Retired and bought a 2010 PiperSport. As for weights you need to look at the Payload Range Table in the weight and balance data for your particular serial number too. It will give you the max crew weight for all the different baggage and fuel configurations. The new SCs have heavier empty weights and less useful loads than the older models. The beauty of it is not having to contend with the FAA medical bureaucracy and the low operating costs. The big trade offs are the LSA restrictions and the winds and turbulence are more limiting than for the Cessna and Piper folks. If you can live with that they are a blast to fly. It's a good idea to make sure you have a good LSRM and Rotax maintenance nearby. Any A&P can fix a Cessna...but most have zero experience with LSAs. Blinding flash of the obvious but I would secure hanger space before getting too far down the road looking at airplanes. I did my pre-buy in conjunction with the annual/100 hr inspection, was due so seller paid that portion. I also recommend whoever does your inspection give you an estimate of projected costs of due outs over the next several years...parachute repack, rocket motor, 5 yr hose/rubber, ADS-B, ELT service, etc. Remember that airplanes are a bit like exotic cars...expect surprises and budget accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necco Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 And some A&P’s have a tremendous amount of experience. And are rotax certified. Do your homework and pick accordingly. To say youd pick one over the other is a major downfall. Bottom line is get someone who has experience in this category aircraft and knows how it works. But to suggest one is more knowledgeable than the other is jumping the gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyAgain Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 41 minutes ago, Necco said: And some A&P’s have a tremendous amount of experience. And are rotax certified. Do your homework and pick accordingly. To say youd pick one over the other is a major downfall. Bottom line is get someone who has experience in this category aircraft and knows how it works. But to suggest one is more knowledgeable than the other is jumping the gun. That's true. None on my airfield unfortunately. The mechanics keep us flying. More technical than I could ever handle that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necco Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 I will even go out on a limb here and bet that LSRM who did your inspection for the 100/annual didnt do a a fuel tightness check. Or remove the horizontal stab to lube the pins. But im just assuming and just a hanger monkey. Hopefully you have the checklist from the mechanic and keep it till its superseded. FAR But again if your happy with the LSRM and your purchase and how the inspection was conducted great. Again im just a hanger monkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyAgain Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 25 minutes ago, Necco said: I will even go out on a limb here and bet that LSRM who did your inspection for the 100/annual didnt do a a fuel tightness check. Or remove the horizontal stab to lube the pins. But im just assuming and just a hanger monkey. Hopefully you have the checklist from the mechanic and keep it till its superseded. FAR But again if your happy with the LSRM and your purchase and how the inspection was conducted great. Again im just a hanger monkey Are those items required in a 100 hour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necco Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 Yes sir. Your LSRM should know this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmi Posted July 6, 2019 Report Share Posted July 6, 2019 21 minutes ago, FlyAgain said: Are those items required in a 100 hour? What is required in an annual should be listed in your AMM manual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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