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Question for the group: 

I'm told that the factory isn't doing LOAs yet for ADS-b (as of Nov 21, 2017 anyway).

I've decided to simply update my existing, factory installed Garmin GTX330 to 'ES' (extended squitter) which will make me ADS-B "OUT" compliant.

For "IN", I'm already happy with Stratus/Foreflight & iPad.  This quick/easy update should allow me to fly, and get the $500 FAA rebate I reserved.

I'm not actually sure I require an LOA as I'm upgrading existing factory equipment.   Like a software update for the Dynon units doesn't require an LOA - I'm not sure this should.

Adding ES to the GTX330 is a factory chip & software - no change to airframe, engineering, weight & balance.   

Since the factory or their US Importer/Distributor can't provide an LOA at this time - I'm really liking the idea that maybe I don't need one for this.

Any views on this?

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On 11/21/2017 at 5:24 PM, dbonnar said:

I'm told that the factory isn't doing LOAs yet for ADS-b (as of Nov 21, 2017 anyway).

Funny, I didn't think the factory was doing LOA's for ANYTHING! :P Sorry I couldn't resist the temptation. 

 

As for your questions for ADS-B, Oh if it were only that easy.

A couple of things dbonnar.....(what year is your SportCruiser?)

  1. A GTX-330ES alone does not make you 2020 compliant.
  2. Even if you did the 330 to 330ES upgrade you still need a WAAS GPS position source to be 2020 compliant, do you have one? You would need a WAAS 430 or 530 or ANY other WAAS position source to feed that into the 330. You cannot use a 696 or 796 for your position source if this is what came in your plane. 
  3. Upgrading your 330 to 330ES does qualify for the rebate. This is one of a few exceptions they are making. But without a position source you are not compliant. Also the installation must occur after the rebate reservation system was opened on September 19, 2016.
  4. I also wouldn't think you'd need a LOA for a software upgrade since you'll still have a GTX-330 as your transponder. 
  5. You can still use your Stratus for IN as that isn't a requirement for the 2020 mandate, you're only required to have OUT.

I hope this answered some of your questions and will point you in the right direction.

 

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Upon further research I see from the FAA registry you own a 2008 SportCruiser. I also see that you have the GNS-430. Can we assume it's the non-WAAS version?

Here’s a link to the FAA ADS-B website that may answer more questions you might have on the rebate and eligibility.

https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/

The 330ES can only use the 400W or 500W series GPS for it’s “certified “ position source according to their rules.

The cost to upgrade a non WAAS unit to WAAS is $3995 MSRP from Garmin. On top of the 330 to 330ES upgrade which is $1300 MSRP. 

Again, I can't imagine a LOA is needed to "upgrade" your existing equipment to become 2020 compliant. It'll still be the same equipment as installed by the manufacturer. It'll just be pricey that's all.

Just food for thought.......

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Excellent comments Shawn -thank you.  I'll detail my situation a bit more as others here might benefit from our dialog.

So far, my ADS-B journey has ended up very well as the FAA Rebate site tells me "the check is in the mail".

As you found on the FAA site, I have a 2008 SC, GNS430W & GTX330.  The factory standard in 2008 was a Garmin 328 transponder however we had heard about ADS-B regs and 'extended squitter' so we paid a bit more for an option to get the GTX330, which is "chip up-gradable" to ES.

Because I have a GNS430W, Nav/Com it can provide "position source" to the transponder.  I removed (very easy) the transponder and had my local radio guy send it off to Garmin for ES upgrade.  As you noted, that was $1300 to Garmin.  Got the GTX330 back and it's now a GTX330 ES with the addition of a board.   So far so good.

I needed to add one serial (RS-232) line from the GNS430W to the GTX330 ES so that the transponder could use the 430 as it's position source.   My radio guy created a 12 inch two wire line, with a molex connector in the center.   The molex connector allowed me to "cross-over" the "out" from the GTX330ES to the "in" of the GNS430W maintaining wire color coding consistency for a future radio guy to know what's going on.  By using the molex as a cross connect,  the "Ins" are blue/white and the "outs" are white on both units.  While only one serial data line is required, we wired two just for future capacity.   Seemed like the right thing to do.   I took the wire from my radio guy and took apart the SC panel myself, adding in the new serial connect between the two units.  I'm an LSRM/A and love doing as much as I can myself.  My radio guy was glad he didn't have to sit in the SC and doing panel wiring.

Now, having the GTX330ES "serial in" pin of the transponder wired to one of the "icarus position serial out" pins (I think that's right) of the GNS43W, we were ready to configure both units to know about each other.   

Other things that had to happen: 

GNS430 system software version was v3.x and GPS software also old, and it had to be brought up to 5.x for ADS-B.  My local radio guy didn't have the proper update chip so l flew to another shop and had them update my GNS430W System & GPS software to 5.4 (latest from Garmin).  $75 for one hour.

The config of the two units was the hardest part and I'll take a TON of pictures of the config screens for my documentation later.

Now, as you probably know, this gives me 'out' compliance only - which will meet the 2020 mandate.  The FAA doesn't seem to care that I did very little work and upgraded existing systems - I'll believe it when the $500 check clears.   

For "in", my plan is to continue to use my Stratus and iPad/Foreflight combination.  I've used that for trips to Oshkosh from CA and other cross-country jaunts.  I will likely buy a Stratus II before Osh 2018.  I love traffic and weather via Foreflight and it's easier to deal with vs the 430W screen.

I'm preparing an LOA request for the factory as I expect to need one due to added wiring in the panel.  From experience, if you completely write the LOA for them - you have a good chance they'll sign and return.  The key is make it simple for them to help!

Thanks again for your tips & comments.

Dave 

2008 SC

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, dbonnar said:

I'm preparing an LOA request for the factory as I expect to need one due to added wiring in the panel.  From experience, if you completely write the LOA for them - you have a good chance they'll sign and return.  The key is make it simple for them to help!

Thanks again for your tips & comments.

Dave 

2008 SC

I wish you all the luck with this. I did just that, all their work for them, and got nothing. If the tide is changing as CSA then maybe you'll see different results.

It's sort of putting the cart before the horse with the wiring modifications you did and then asking for an LOA. I'm sure there are some are screaming "you legally can't do that", but it's done right?

And thanks for the details as to what you did and how you accomplished your ADS-B out. I remember the GTX-328 (european version of he 327) in the Remos I first trained in.

I wouldn't think the 330 to 330ES would require an LOA since it is still the same equipment, but the wiring is another story. :ph34r:

I am aware of the configuration of the transponder, I went through almost all the same when I installed the 327 in my plane. I had to configure it to accept the altitude encoder data from the Dynon D-100, the GPS data from my Aera 660 and also ran the extra RS-232 data out for my ADS-B box. My old transponder had a parallel grey code converter that I was able to remove when I installed the 327.

It was the same for the GTR-200 COM I installed also. Data from the Aera 660 had to be fed into it and configured. All those Garmin gadgets have huge configuration menus to navigate and setup properly. They are not "plug and play". Once configured they are AWESOME.

All that said, I'm glad you got what you needed in the end and the rebate is on the way. I'm working on my ADS-B out right now, The GDL-82 with my GTX-327. I hope I get the response of "the check is in the mail" one day soon. :D

 

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