Oshkosh 2017 EAA AirVenture CSA and Cruiser Aircraft

[DavePilot]

Pictures from the Cruiser Aircraft booth at Oshkosh 2017

from the 

http://www.czechsportaircraft.com/en/

and

http://www.cruiseraircraft.com/en/

Websites....

any SCFLIERs on site at KOSH ?

D

[Crusader16]

Yes Dave, I was out there yesterday anxiously awaiting their big announcement for the LOA on any ADS-B out equipment.  Apparently I talked to the wrong person because they didn't know what I was referring too.  Still holding my breath! ?

Bob

[ShawnM]

12 minutes ago, Crusader16 said:

Still holding my breath! ?

Breathe Bob, breathe. 

Please let us know if you hear of any BIG news from CSA. 

All Dave's pics and more can be seen on CSA's website.

 

[Crusader16]

I will.  Thought about going out again tomorrow to see Tom or someone else higher up who might know something.  Hard to think of spending another $33 bucks just to get in the door.  Will see if anyone else gets the same answer I did.

I think that Garmin GDL82 would look mighty pretty in my experimental SportCruiser! ?

Bob

[ShawnM]

Same here!

See if you can BORROW the one from the Garmin booth so we can test it in the SportCruiser. 

If you do make it back out there swing by the Garmin booth and talk with them about the FAA rebate and if the GDL-82 will qualify by the time of its release. It slated to be released in Q4. All we need to do is RESERVE the rebate by September 18 and you have 90 days to complete the install and test the system to get the rebate. If you reserve on the last day this will buy us until December 18th to complete everything.

Just food for thought.....

[rtk]

6 hours ago, ShawnM said:

Just food for thought.....

Shawn, you are such an instigator!    I mean that in jest... sort of.  

Bob - it was Thomas Schrade that told me that he would have some news at Oshkosh.  If you happen to go back, I agree... see if Tom might have some news.

I saw that Cruiser Aircraft had updated their website and added photos of the aircraft, some young ladies, and a $10K special on a new SportCruiser, but still no news on a LOA.

I am in strong agreement with Shawn... if no announcement is made, I'm reserving the rebate before Sept. 18 and I'm converting my aircraft to E-LSA as soon as... well, as soon as the wings are back on! 

[DavePilot]

Bob Crusader16

once you get the answer on the CSA Letter of Authorization plans for ADS-B OUT and IN solutions to owners of "non SKYVIEW equipped" CRUZ S-LSA,

you might ask for an update on the 

list of Improvements to the CRUZ LSA voted on by SCFLIER Members

and a topic in SCFLIER called "What Improvements would you like to see in the SportCruiser CRUZ LSA"

 

The list attached in the picture below was delivered to Czech Sport Aircraft last year at Oshkosh in July of 2016. 

The "Top 5" Improvements desired by SCFLIER Forum Voters (July 2016) for the CRUZ LSA Aircraft are:

 

0) High Priority for ALL USA Non-SkyView CRUZ S-LSA owners - LOAs for ADS-B OUT (and IN) equipment

1) Letter of Authorization from CSA to allow incorporation of the Dynon Angle of Attack Probe to feed D-100 and SkyView AOA Displays

2) Improved Cruise Speed and Climb Performance

3) Improved Engine Cooling on the Ground especially in Hot Climates

4) Improved Reliability of the Ducati Rectifier/Regulator, especially in Hot Conditions

5) Improved Inside Cockpit Canopy Release Handle

 

this also might be a good time for our new SCFLIER Members to provide input to our "list of desired CRUZ LSA improvements"....

Any thoughts/additions/comments from our newest SCFLIERs on your CRUZ LSA "Wish List" ?

thanks

Dave

[ronin5573]

One improvement they made was in the inside.  Seats are more comfortable 

[KarenPilot]

Looks like "Sizzling Interior Ramp Appeal"

what happened to the Garmin 796 ?

K

[ronin5573]

Good question.  My guess is they feel for Vfr flight only one is needed.  I disagree.  The dynon gps is really great however it's expensive to install sectional maps which I use my 796 for.  I also like the redundancy of both.   The panel is plastic or carbon fiber so that should save some weight.  The interior is more car like which I think is a step in the right direction.  The aircraft airframe was the same .  Interior and paint is what was changed.  The booth was really nice and very professional.  

[ShawnM]

The seats do look comfortable.

Why they are still putting a cigarette lighter and an external intercom in the plane is beyond me. The Garmin has an incredible stereo 3D intercom built in. We need USB ports not cigarette lighter sockets. This is 2017 right?

 

1 hour ago, KarenPilotVV said:

what happened to the Garmin 796 ?

I wondered WHY they have kept a panel mount GPS over the past few years with the installation of the dual 10" screens. Backup? Everyone has a tablet or phone with them these days. Not sure why you'd need a 796 or another other X96 now. Saves panel space and weight.

 

22 minutes ago, ronin5573 said:

The dynon gps is really great however it's expensive to install sectional maps which I use my 796 for.

Database pricing? Dynon is $99 a year, garmin is $149.

 

[ShawnM]

10 hours ago, rtk said:

I'm converting my aircraft to E-LSA as soon as... well, as soon as the wings are back on! 

I think you'll need these to get it home, right?

Let me know if you need the info on the DAR that did my conversion. It's about a 30 minute flight from where your plane is now. But you'll need the wings back on to get over to him also. 

[ronin5573]

17 minutes ago, ShawnM said:

The seats do look comfortable.

Why they are still putting a cigarette lighter and an external intercom in the plane is beyond me. The Garmin has an incredible stereo 3D intercom built in. We need USB ports not cigarette lighter sockets. This is 2017 right?

 

I wondered WHY they have kept a panel mount GPS over the past few years with the installation of the dual 10" screens. Backup? Everyone has a tablet or phone with them these days. Not sure why you'd need a 796 or another other X96 now. Saves panel space and weight.

 

Database pricing? Dynon is $99 a year, garmin is $149.

 

Dynon doesn't have sectional maps .  You have to use the Seattle ones which require keeping the USB sticks in.  Not elegant.  

The new plane have 2 USB ports in the panel.  Mine has 2 USB ports but they are by your right knee on the side of the console. Buggs me if I fly with them in as it hits my leg. The USB ports are for the dynon screens not for changing your iPhone.  Hence the power adapter.  Never tried but I don't think the USB ports will charge a device.  2 gps??? You can use the dynon for nav and have just the traffic page up on the garmin or weather page or  your flight plan.   To many possibilitys to list .   Sean do you need it ? Nope but it's nice.  Give me a sectional and a map I can get there with nothing,  but the direct button is so much easier and relaxing.

[dnhill]

Back in November 2015 Seattle had an offer for lifetime database updates that I purchased for $799.  I won't break even for 5 more years, but then it should work out.  After I purchased the lifetime deal I realized that with advancing age, a lifetime offer is not as good a deal.   The updates are also good for their FlyQ product. 

Also, if Dynon changes vendors or at some point I change avionics, could be money wasted.  At the time, the government was pushing increasing the cost to vendors for the data and I was worried database updates were going to go up.  

[DavePilot]

On the loss of the Garmin 796

to me, that is significant.  I'd rather have multiple redundant OPTIONS

ON THE COCKPIT PANEL

with DISPLAY CHOICES like selecting a GARMIN 796

• WEATHER ONLY page, maybe satellite cloud cover
• or a TRAFFIC "bullseye" range ring page,
• or the WAYPOINT radio  frequencies page, 
• or an AIRPORT/TAXI Diagram, or....

I fly with a backup to our 696.   It's the new Garmin Aera 660 that clips in to a custom mount under the glareshield directly over the 696 display when it fails.  Everything fails eventually.

Being prepared with backup, redundant display options IN THE PANEL is a good idea.  

The 796 weighs < 2 lbs with battery  and mount.   I'd want it in a $170k LSA   

I also carry an iPhone and iPad,  but they aren't as nice as INSTALLED Panel mounted Garmin products which can Bluetooth to our GDL-39 R for

FREE ADS-B IN TRAFFIC and WEATHER.   In the cockpit panel center.

Looks to me like a GARMIN Aera 660 would still fit in the new SportCruiser center panel....

D

[ShawnM]

23 minutes ago, DavidKarenVV said:

 Everything fails eventually.

This doesn't sound like "optimist dave" to me. 

My opinion is that less clutter is better. Have portables suctioned cupped everywhere is distracting. I have a phone and tablet as a backup that are out of sight but available if needed.

 

1 hour ago, ronin5573 said:

Dynon doesn't have sectional maps .  You have to use the Seattle ones which require keeping the USB sticks in.  Not elegant.

I know Dynon has an agreement with Seattle Avionics, my point was about pricing. It's less than Garmin.

 

48 minutes ago, ronin5573 said:

The USB ports are for the dynon screens not for changing your iPhone.

Correct, they are not charging ports, they are for the EFIS and EMS. My point was why not locate 2 ports for powering our portable devices in the center console where the cigarette lighter use to be. Having the cigarette lighter high up in the right corner as in the photo of the new plane leads to cords in the way. Do the "designers" ever fly the planes?

 

51 minutes ago, dnhill said:

After I purchased the lifetime deal I realized that with advancing age, a lifetime offer is not as good a deal. 

Very funny! 

 

 

 

[Beachcomber (Steve)]

44 minutes ago, ShawnM said:

Correct, they are not charging ports, they are for the EFIS and EMS. My point was why not locate 2 ports for powering our portable devices in the center console where the cigarette lighter use to be. Having the cigarette lighter high up in the right corner as in the photo of the new plane leads to cords in the way. Do the "designers" ever fly the planes?

 

 

 

Those two USB ports while for the EIFS and EMS, also charge my iPad.  Seems to keep it charged pretty well during flight.  However, as mentioned earlier, the location of the cord by my knee isn't the best design!

[ShawnM]

36 minutes ago, Beachcomber said:

Those two USB ports while for the EIFS and EMS, also charge my iPad.

This topic was covered in another post about USB ports found here. 

 

Those usb ports are not meant to charge ANYTHING. Here's a quote from Dynon from the other post:

SkyView is a multi-thousand dollar piece of flight critical avionics. Putting a load on the USB port makes it work harder and get hotter. It's unlikely, but possible that a USB device could act up and make SkyView shut down.

Since it's only a .5A capable port, I would ask if it's supplying enough power to actually "increase" the battery percentage or just keep it steady and keep it from dying. Maybe contact Dynon and confirm this. I'm not sure I'd use those ports to power an iPad or iphone given the amount of current it needs to actually charge.

A proper USB port supplies around 2.1 amps for your devices charging circuit. 

Just wanted to share this with you. It's your plane so of course you can do whatever you like.
 

[Beachcomber (Steve)]

As a newbie, good to know.  Thanks for the info Shawn. 

[WmInce]

4 hours ago, ShawnM said:

Database pricing? Dynon is $99 a year, garmin is $149.

Shawn,

Unless I am missing something or things at Dynon have changed, when you presently purchase Skyview, the database subscription is included in the purchase price of the unit, for life. For my Skyview database subscription (FAA aviation and obstacle), I pay nothing. Now, if I want to add Seattle Avionics charts to Skyview, that is $99/yr or $199/3 yrs.

I let my Seattle Avionics subscription expire, because Skyview and/or Foreflight/WngX suffice just fine (VFR).

That withstanding, the G796 and Aera 660 units are awesome. But at this point, adding either one would be somewhat overkill.

As you implied, I also use my iPad for additional information and Skyview backup.

[Crusader16]

Okay you guys don't shoot me because I'm just the messager.

Talked to the Sales Manager from CSA because Tom was off giving demo rides.  The word now is CSA is going to issue a Service Bulletin in the fourth quarter of this year that will cover legacy SportCruisers for ADS-B Out equippage for 2020.  Asked what type of equipment was going to be involved, he did not know as yet.  So stay turned.

Hope this helps out.  If anyone else finds out anything else about this, please give us an update.

Thanks,  Bob

[rtk]

Thanks Bob!  Appreciate you braving the entrance fee, crowds and hunting down someone that could provide some information.

Disappointing as I was expecting the announcement during this show from what I was told.  And this will mean that those of us with legacy CRUZ aircraft will need to put in for the rebate by September 18th as Shawn advised, hoping that the announcement in occurs sometime between October 1 and December 18th, 2017 (end of the 90 days to get your equipment installed.)

This is also barring any kind of (further) delay in announcement.

So... Shawn, PM inbound.  Would love to know who your DAR was.

Bob

[ShawnM]

5 hours ago, WmInce said:

Unless I am missing something or things at Dynon have changed, when you presently purchase Skyview, the database subscription is included in the purchase price of the unit, for life.

Yes Wmlnce, the US aviation and obstacle data is free courtesy of Dynon. I was referring to the chart data subscription from Seattle Avionics. We're on the same page here.  

I also agree that a second GPS is overkill (and more clutter) when just about all of us travel with a phone and a tablet with foreflight. 

[WmInce]

9 minutes ago, ShawnM said:

Yes Wmlnce, the US aviation and obstacle data is free courtesy of Dynon. I was referring to the chart data subscription from Seattle Avionics. We're on the same page here.  

I also agree that a second GPS is overkill (and more clutter) when just about all of us travel with a phone and a tablet with foreflight. 

One upgrade I wouldn't mind having though, is replacing my G396 with the Garmin Aera 660. That''s a great little unit that fits nicely in the same spot where the G396 sits. It seems like it is just a smaller version of the G796, at about half the cost.

All that withstanding, the only thing I really use my G396 for is backup GPS position and a constant page displaying NST airports. It works very well.

[ShawnM]

On 7/26/2017 at 5:30 PM, ShawnM said:

Breathe Bob, breathe. 

Aren't you glad I told you to BREATHE Bob? I'm glad you did and you're still with us. 

You'd be a distant memory by now if you had waited for "the big announcement" from CSA.

I really dont want to say I told you so............but..........I TOLD YOU SO! 

 

3 hours ago, rtk said:

So... Shawn, PM inbound.  Would love to know who your DAR was.

No worries, when you come pick up the plane I'll fly there with you if you like. It's a small grass strip just north of Orlando. $400 and an hour or so of your time (since you'll have just had you annual done) and you too will be free of "the man".