Battery

[wayne]

Hi!

I noticed battery on my newly acquired Cruiser has a crack.

Any suggestion on replacement please?

Best price.legalities.etc.

Thanks!!!!

[ShawnM]

1 hour ago, wayne said:

Hi!

I noticed battery on my newly acquired Cruiser has a crack.

Any suggestion on replacement please?

Best price.legalities.etc.

Thanks!!!!

Hi Wayne, what battery is in it now? Is it a FG FORTE or something else?

First, legally you need a LOA to change to a different battery. Will you ever get one? No, but at least you are informed of the legal aspect of changing the battery.

My next step would be to call Cruiser Aircraft and ask them what to do. Can they provide you the exact battery the factory uses? If not ask them if the new battery they'll sell you comes with an aircraft specific LOA. This will prove for an interesting conversation for sure. 

The last importer in Texas, US Sport Aircraft, was even selling customers a different battery than the european FG FORTE and of course no LOA was provided.

The latest IPC lists the part number for a battery as 3800D078 but the "description" only reads BATTERY 12V, 20Ah. I'm not a betting man but I'm willing to wager that the factory battery does not have this part number on it.

This is just my opinion but many have just replaced their battery with one of the same specs, 12v, 20Ah. They are available everywhere at your local battery stores and online. Many will also not tell you this but since a battery is considered a "consumable" they just change it with one of the same specs. 

I'm E-LSA so my last battery change was to a Odyssey PC680 and it was the best decision ever. Was it 2 times the cost of a normal AGM battery? Yes, but well worth it.

Here's a link to the same topic and question i started over 3 years ago. It's the same question you asked and you can read those responses also and make an informed decision for yourself.

Hope you found some of this helpful.  

[Izzy]

17 minutes ago, ShawnM said:

My next step would be to call Cruiser Aircraft and ask them what to do. Can they provide you the exact battery the factory uses? If not ask them if the new battery they'll sell you comes with an aircraft specific LOA. This will prove for an interesting conversation for sure. 

Candace Drawbeck IS the right person to contact for this request. She may not know the answer but, will greatly enjoy harassing the factory until an answer is provided. 

18 minutes ago, ShawnM said:

First, legally you need a LOA to change to a different battery. Will you ever get one? No, but at least you are informed of the legal aspect of changing the battery.

I believe...I recall...I think....that I once MAY HAVE heard of a certain SportCruiser owner that replaced the spec battery with a smaller (lighter) battery. Said battery was not only lighter and less expensive but, was also readily available in most if not all aviation. ?

[wayne]

Thanks fellows!!

Mine is an Alliant Type X4-

3220000004A is model number

Appreciate the input..

[ShawnM]

18 minutes ago, wayne said:

Thanks fellows!!

Mine is an Alliant Type X4-

3220000004A is model number

Appreciate the input..

That's a lithium ion battery and if it's cracked I'd remove it from the plane immediately. If oxygen penetrates the casing it will burn very intensely and could destroy the plane or worse. I personally would never use a lithium ion battery in an aircraft but that's my personal opinion. 

I dont think the factory ever installed lithium batteries as I've never seen them in the IPC. 

Is there a log entry for that battery?

[ronin5573]

On ‎9‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 11:30 AM, ShawnM said:

That's a lithium ion battery and if it's cracked I'd remove it from the plane immediately. If oxygen penetrates the casing it will burn very intensely and could destroy the plane or worse. I personally would never use a lithium ion battery in an aircraft but that's my personal opinion. 

I dont think the factory ever installed lithium batteries as I've never seen them in the IPC. 

Is there a log entry for that battery?

I just replaced mine with the The "Expert Power" branded EXP 12200 off amazon for 40 bucks.  I think its the exact same one without the FGFORTE brand.  When I mean its exactly the same I mean in every way. I still think its funny to think you need a loa for a battery.  Imagine all the planes out there without batteries in them waiting for battery loa's.  Most of the US fleet would be just sitting there. Good luck with that.  Don't tell no one but I flushed that green crappy coolant they use and put dexcool 5050 in too  last year.

[Deltafox]

6 hours ago, ronin5573 said:

Don't tell no one but I flushed that green crappy coolant they use and put dexcool 5050 in too  last year.

sshhhhhhh.

[ShawnM]

18 hours ago, ronin5573 said:

I just replaced mine with the The "Expert Power" branded EXP 12200 off amazon for 40 bucks.  I think its the exact same one without the FGFORTE brand.  When I mean its exactly the same I mean in every way. I still think its funny to think you need a loa for a battery.  Imagine all the planes out there without batteries in them waiting for battery loa's.  Most of the US fleet would be just sitting there. Good luck with that.  Don't tell no one but I flushed that green crappy coolant they use and put dexcool 5050 in too  last year.

My first battery replacement was with a Duracell of the exact same shape and specs as your Expert Power but with a Duracell label on it. It lasted 2 years. I think they all are the exact same battery with different labels. Second battery was a UPG brand battery and it lasted about a year. I now have the Odyssey PC680 (amazing battery) and I'll report back when it dies which hopefully won't be for many years. 

And yes, LEGALLY, you need a LOA to change to a different battery but who gets one? Nobody. It's ridiculous that you need one and I agree. It's a "consumable". 

As for your coolant, Rotax approves the DEXCool 50/50 as it's what I use also but dont worry your secret's safe here. (along with your quick drain ) 

 

[ronin5573]

On ‎9‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 6:55 AM, ShawnM said:

My first battery replacement was with a Duracell of the exact same shape and specs as your Expert Power but with a Duracell label on it. It lasted 2 years. I think they all are the exact same battery with different labels. Second battery was a UPG brand battery and it lasted about a year. I now have the Odyssey PC680 (amazing battery) and I'll report back when it dies which hopefully won't be for many years. 

And yes, LEGALLY, you need a LOA to change to a different battery but who gets one? Nobody. It's ridiculous that you need one and I agree. It's a "consumable". 

As for your coolant, Rotax approves the DEXCool 50/50 as it's what I use also but dont worry your secret's safe here. (along with your quick drain ) 

 

In the great words of the infamous Lev .  "Components. American components, Russian Components, ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!"

 

[ShawnM]

On 9/8/2018 at 10:07 AM, ronin5573 said:

In the great words of the infamous Lev .  "Components. American components, Russian Components, ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!"

So true. I buy tons of electronics components from overseas because none of them are made in America. 

Great movie quote, thanks ronin5573. 

[rtk]

Reviving yet another older thread...

I sat in my plane yesterday checking some settings on the TruTrak Vizion autopilot (more on that in that thread.)  As I turned on my EMS, I noticed that the voltage displaying as 11.7 volts.  This is with the plane on a battery tender all week long.  With the EMS, EFIS and Autopilot on, the voltage dropped to 11.3 volts while still hooked-up to the battery tender.  I think my battery is on its way out.  It is about 3 - 4 years old, and has suffered through long periods without being hooked-up to a battery tender in a hot Florida hangar while it was being serviced.

I was looking at the available options and the strong reviews for the Odyssey PC680 battery.  But then I came up on the Full Throttle FT230 battery (made by Full River Batteries.  https://www.fullriverbattery.com/product/ft230/)  It is the same dimensions as the Odyssey PC680, and same weight, but produces 230 cold cranking amps (vs 170 cca for the Odyssey.)  On the interwebs, there's one review out of the UK where an aviator with a Rotax used this battery to start-up his aircraft in -3 Celsius (27 degree Fahrenheit) weather where other batteries failed to reliably do so.

I'll check into this a bit more as the HQ for Full River Batteries is out here on the West Coast (Camarillo) and I'll give them a call later today.

[ShawnM]

8 hours ago, rtk said:

.....  I think my battery is on its way out.  It is about 3 - 4 years old, and has suffered through long periods without being hooked-up to a battery tender in a hot Florida hangar while it was being serviced.

You got 3-4 years out of a battery?  That's an amazing feat in itself.

Great find on the Full Throttle battery Bob, let us know what you decide. I have the PC-680 as you know and your find looks to also have a higher HCA as well which is what we here in sunny Florida look for.  And it's a little less money than the Odyssey battery. The proverbial icing on the cake.

The HCA on my Odyssey PC-680 is 350 and the HCA on the Full Throttle FT230 is 410 amps. When my PC-680 is laid to rest I'll try the Full Throttle FT230 for sure for a head to head comparison. 

The only difference I see is that Full Throttle wants you to charge the battery after every use whereas Odyssey told me not to use a charger on my battery. The only time I have it on my Battery Tender now is when I'm working on the avionics for a longer period of time and need to keep the voltage up. I dont put my PC-680 on my charger any other time. I'll check for more info on this.

[rtk]

20 hours ago, ShawnM said:

You got 3-4 years out of a battery?  That's an amazing feat in itself.

Great find on the Full Throttle battery Bob, let us know what you decide. I have the PC-680 as you know and your find looks to also have a higher HCA as well which is what we here in sunny Florida look for.  And it's a little less money than the Odyssey battery. The proverbial icing on the cake.

 

Ooof!  Really?!?  I thought 5 years would be the norm!  I didn't realize our batteries required that frequent replacement!  While my battery is working now, the fact that it's voltage is 11.7 volts while on a battery tender is concerning.  I'd rather err on the side of safety than find out that on final, my lights and other items down power-up.

I called Full River Batteries and they advised that the FT230L has the positive terminal on the left side rather than the common right side configuration.  They don't stock many of those FT230L which is fine... I think we need the positive terminal on the right anyway.

I ordered a battery online from BatteryPete dot com and they had free shipping.  Will provide an update when it's installed!

[Ramizzan]

It's interesting that the maintenance manual references LiFePo4 batteries in their installation steps. Are they installing them in newer SportCruisers in the States or in Europe? 

 

 

 

[mewp]

The way I read the maintenance manual you have the option of a led acid battery OR the LifePo4 battery (lithium). No LOA required

11.2.6 Battery
Lead-acid battery
Lead-acid maintenance-free battery is installed on firewall. Battery can be charged directly
in the airplane after its disconnecting from the onboard electrical system.
Technical parameters:
Voltage 12 V
Nominal capacity 20 Ah
Max. discharge current 300 A (5 s)
Short circuit current 1,000 A
Range of operation temperatures - 20 to + 60 °C ( -4 to + 140 °F )
Service life is about 3 - 5 years or at capacity drop below 80 %

 

Weight:	6 kg (13 lbs)
If the airplane is not operated for more than one month, then remove the battery from the
airplane and store it.
Always store the battery fully charged at temperature of 20 °C ( 68 °F ). Daily discharging is
less than 0.1 % of battery nominal capacity.
Regularly recharge it up to the full capacity of charging once a month.
LiFePo4 battery
LiFePo4 maintenance-free battery is installed on firewall. Battery can be charged directly in
the airplane after its disconnecting from the onboard electrical system.
Technical parameters:

 

Nominal voltage	13.2 V
Capacity	9.2 Ah
Pulse discharge current	480 A (10 s)

 

 

[ShawnM]

5 hours ago, rtk said:

 

Ooof!  Really?!?  I thought 5 years would be the norm!  I didn't realize our batteries required that frequent replacement!  While my battery is working now, the fact that it's voltage is 11.7 volts while on a battery tender is concerning.  I'd rather err on the side of safety than find out that on final, my lights and other items down power-up.

I called Full River Batteries and they advised that the FT230L has the positive terminal on the left side rather than the common right side configuration.  They don't stock many of those FT230L which is fine... I think we need the positive terminal on the right anyway.

I ordered a battery online from BatteryPete dot com and they had free shipping.  Will provide an update when it's installed!

I know many who barely make it two years. Some even install new batteries annually as they are buying the $45 AGM battery from Amazon. 3-4 years is very good. Swapping it now is a good idea if you are only getting 11.7 on the charger. And yes, looking back at the battery from the prop the positive terminal is on the right side or the pilot side.

Please give us an update when you get it installed. Sounds like it's going to have some serious juice for starting. When I first installed the Odyssey battery I was amazed at the power it has. 

I see Battery Pete is here in Florida and $117 with free shipping is a great price.

[ShawnM]

2 hours ago, Ryan said:

It's interesting that the maintenance manual references LiFePo4 batteries in their installation steps. Are they installing them in newer SportCruisers in the States or in Europe? 

I think they offer the EarthX battery as an option here in the US. Those batteries are very expensive, about 4 times the cost of a standard AGM battery. 

[ShawnM]

1 hour ago, mewp said:

The way I read the maintenance manual you have the option of a led acid battery OR the LifePo4 battery (lithium). No LOA required

That's the way I read it also besides you wouldn't get a LOA......... for ANYTHING so why bother? The Czechs can't even spell LOA let alone understand what it's for.

[JDevoy]

On 9/4/2018 at 4:05 PM, ShawnM said:

Hi Wayne, what battery is in it now? Is it a FG FORTE or something else?

First, legally you need a LOA to change to a different battery. Will you ever get one? No, but at least you are informed of the legal aspect of changing the battery.

My next step would be to call Cruiser Aircraft and ask them what to do. Can they provide you the exact battery the factory uses? If not ask them if the new battery they'll sell you comes with an aircraft specific LOA. This will prove for an interesting conversation for sure. 

The last importer in Texas, US Sport Aircraft, was even selling customers a different battery than the european FG FORTE and of course no LOA was provided.

The latest IPC lists the part number for a battery as 3800D078 but the "description" only reads BATTERY 12V, 20Ah. I'm not a betting man but I'm willing to wager that the factory battery does not have this part number on it.

This is just my opinion but many have just replaced their battery with one of the same specs, 12v, 20Ah. They are available everywhere at your local battery stores and online. Many will also not tell you this but since a battery is considered a "consumable" they just change it with one of the same specs. 

I'm E-LSA so my last battery change was to a Odyssey PC680 and it was the best decision ever. Was it 2 times the cost of a normal AGM battery? Yes, but well worth it.

Here's a link to the same topic and question i started over 3 years ago. It's the same question you asked and you can read those responses also and make an informed decision for yourself.

Hope you found some of this helpful.  

Totally agree on the PC680. One of the best investments I have made. 

[Deltafox]

On 6/23/2020 at 9:27 PM, ShawnM said:

Some even install new batteries annually as they are buying the $45 AGM battery from Amazon.

That would be me.

 

[rtk]

I received the Full Throttle FT230 battery quickly from Battery Pete.  I was pleased to see that the battery comes with bolts to thread into the teminals.  Overall, the dimensions are close, but I noticed that the height of the battery was a little short and would allow the battery to slide up and down insde its mount during turbulence  I ended-up cutting a strip of silicone from a sheet I had and sandwhich that between the lower battery mount (and on top of the cork that was there) and the top mount.  This secures the battery nicely.

I am thinking of cutting the silicone sheet to fit the top of the battery and use plastic zip-ties to hold it in place.  This would be to protect the terminals from accidental contact.

No start-up or flight time with the new battery as I put it on the trickle charger/battery maintainer to charge up fully.  Updates in the near future.

While I was in there and the battery was disconnected, I also started on SB-SC-072 and installed the diode on the starter solenoid.  This required getting a little innovative to hold the nylock nut while using a 10mm socket and long extension from inside the cockpit to loosen and tighten.  Good thing to keep that duct tape around! 😂  I'll work on the ignition switch itself this coming (long) weekend.

 

[ShawnM]

Looks great Bob just remember to remove the duct tape and vise-grips before your next flight. 

My Odyssey fit very similar but the cork on the strap that holds it to the firewall was thick enough to really clamp the battery in place and it doesn't move at all. Even if it could move up and down it would only be less than 1/8" at the most.  The Odyssey also comes with threaded receptacles on top for bolts and brackets. The Odyssey came with the bolts and some right angle brackets to be able to attach all the terminals on the plane. When I bought my plane the previous owner added a short piece of rubber tubing around the positive lead and it's been working great ever since. Since the wires come off straight up this was the best solution I guess. I've seen all kinds of boots that come off battery terminals at a 90° angle from the bolt but never looked for or seen a straight one.

Anxiously awaiting those "updates".  

Here's how my Odyssey is mounted and you can see the boot on the positive lead.

   

[FlyAgain]

I just put a new Odyssey PC680 in mine.  Seems to be popular amongst a lot of users here.

[ShawnM]

2 hours ago, FlyAgain said:

I just put a new Odyssey PC680 in mine.  Seems to be popular amongst a lot of users here.

A little on the pricey side but wow, what a great battery. I'm now at 2 years and 2 months and it's still going strong and I never put it on my Battery Tender unless I'm doing avionics work on the plane. I might try the battery Bob just bought next time as the HCA (and CCA) is higher than the Odyssey. I know the Odyssey uses virgin lead as this is reflected in the price and I can only assume that the Full Throttle battery does as well. 

Bob's our test guinea pig on this new battery.  Stay tuned.

[rtk]

9 hours ago, ShawnM said:

Bob's our test guinea pig on this new battery.  Stay tuned.

What noise does a guinea pig make?  Not oink oink 🐷 obviously... but I guess I'll be the test subject for the group.  🐹 LOL.

I swung by the hangar to check on the battery and the lighting (more on that in the Trail Tech thread.)  With my old battery, if I turned on the EMS and avionics (EFIS, GPS, radio), the battery tender would go to yellow to begin topping off the battery.  With the Full Throttle, I not only had the EMS and Avionics on, but turned on the wing light and landing light and had it one for a few minutes while I snapped some pictures.  When I turned off the master switch, I was pleasantly surprised to the battery tender still showing a green reading.

The Full Throttle Battery does indeed use 99.994% pure virgin lead plates.