Mel Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 I would not let a prospective FAA rule change affect a purchase at this time. Originally the NPRM was to be published in January of this year. It is now July and nothing yet! Even after the process is started it will probably be a minimum of a year and more likely 2 years before anything becomes effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnM Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 38 minutes ago, Coffee said: Josh is sittin at $156,000.00 for a brand new 2018 aircraft with a warranty(frame and engine) and slightly better equipped than the used 2015. Remember, this list price is only an "asking" price. Everything is negotiable........yes, everything. Even that 2015 for the $135k, I'm willing to bet they will never get that price but as they say, "there's a sucker born everyday". And I'm sure Coffee Joe is no sucker. As for the FAA LSA limits, I agree with Mel, I would not sit around and wait for this to happen, you'll miss out on many great years of flying. I've seen the Viper up close and personal in both Sebring and Deland. It's a beautiful plane and the fit and finish is, in my opinion, dare I say it, better than the SportCruiser. The exterior is very, very similar as they are both all metal aircraft. The engine cowling has great inlets for cooling that the SportCruiser needs but will never have. The interior in the Viper is very, very nice and the look of the panel is way better than the SportCruiser. Wait til you see the Viper instrument panel on the latest models. If you can buy new you can also choose from 3 different engines, the 912, 912is and the 914. But as you noted, buying anything "new" you always take the hit. Have a look around at Oshkosh and take demo flights if you can. Arrange these in advance with the manufacturer you are interested in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmi Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Well, my point is , keep in mind that if you do buy a plane , say for $140k , and the new rule becomes effective 2-3 years down the line it could be entirely possible for prices for these planes to drop 50% or so as soon as new models with higher gross and fewer limitations hit the market. This is a risk that we all assume participating in a market that is not driven by technological boundaries but rather by artificial bureaucratic limitations where entire product lines can be made obsolete with a single stroke of a pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrosa Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Coffee you can probably get great promotional pricing at OSH. Any chance you can wait until then to pull the trigger? As far as price and new rules. This is a toy not an investment. Who cares if it depreciated at an accerelated rate. If you fly it for 15 years the residual value will be about the same regardless of 10 knots and 200 pounds of payload. What happens when the internal combustion engine is replaced with all electric $7 per hour run costs and way less maintainance? What will that do to prices? My 1 cent... Shawn advise is easily worth double my advise is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmi Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 That’s ok .. I have no problem owning a LSA plane and are more then happy to fly it regardless if there are better options available but, still, I think having all the facts and potential risks of purchasing an LSA plane in market that is about to completely change - it can’t hurt to point it out. And no, market driven innovations generally take years and generations of products before they become the norm - plenty of time to adjust - the current LSA market was created basically overnight with a stroke of a pen and can be destroyed/completely changed just as quickly. PS. I own a plane ( TL Ultralight Sting S4 ) that is max rated at 1320 lbs without any option to go higher ( the design gross ) but one way to guard against the coming change, is to purchase a plane like the Airplane Factory’s Sling 2 that is rated at 1560 lbs ( or a Bristell ) - where manufacturers have already indicated that they will issues LOAs for new gross as soon as new rules are in effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necco Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Anybody have a plane i can wash and wax? Im getting bored Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtk Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 1 hour ago, ShawnM said: Remember, this list price is only an "asking" price. Everything is negotiable........yes, everything. Even that 2015 for the $135k, I'm willing to bet they will never get that price but as they say, "there's a sucker born everyday". And I'm sure Coffee Joe is no sucker. I agree on both points... 1) Everything is negotiable, and 2) CoffeeJoe is no sucker. That 2015 Sportcruiser was probably $160K new (probably less, but let’s assume no negotiation.). Assuming 15% depreciation over 3 years (since the first few years have the fastest depreciation), I’d say that aircraft is closer to $98K - $110K. Maybe $115K if it is already ADS-B compliant. $135K is retail pricing for that aircraft today per AOPA’s VREF (up to $147K for the low hours, but that makes no sense since a new aircraft is just a few thousand more with a warranty.) I would encourage looking at the Sling 2. That’s a beautiful aircraft as well, though the useful load is limited (since it was designed to be sturdy and a higher max gross weight.) 27 minutes ago, Necco said: Anybody have a plane i can wash and wax? Im getting bored If only you were on the West Coast, Necco! 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnM Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Necco said: Anybody have a plane i can wash and wax? Im getting bored I’ll be at my hangar on Tuesday, what time can you make it by? Ginger could use a sponge bath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity26 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 8 hours ago, ShawnM said: I’ll be at my hangar on Tuesday, what time can you make it by? Ginger could use a sponge bath. Make sure you have the air frame log book handy, bet the "wash entry" takes up an entire page. I mean water temp, soap brand, quantity, batch #, ph, etc. Then we have the composition of the wash mitt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnM Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 46 minutes ago, Velocity26 said: Make sure you have the air frame log book handy, bet the "wash entry" takes up an entire page. I mean water temp, soap brand, quantity, batch #, ph, etc. Then we have the composition of the wash mitt... LOL, I have no doubt that Necco can write a mean log book entry. Ginger does have her favorite bath crystals, loofah and a microfiber towel, just sayin'. Although with the weather we have in store this week I just need to pull her out of the hangar for a bath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velocity26 Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 15 minutes ago, ShawnM said: LOL, I have no doubt that Necco can write a mean log book entry. Ginger does have her favorite bath crystals, loofah and a microfiber towel, just sayin'. Although with the weather we have in store this week I just need to pull her out of the hangar for a bath. Good thing you went Experimental, otherwise you would need to get a LOA for those bath crystals. I looked at the local weather forecast and they have the exact same pattern shown every day for the next 2 weeks. Scattered thundershowers with 50% coverage. I need to start working on my boat, or get back to my work on the Ark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnM Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 14 minutes ago, Velocity26 said: Good thing you went Experimental, otherwise you would need to get a LOA for those bath crystals. OMG, I nearly spit out my coffee reading that one. Damn that was funny. I did apply for the LOA just for fun but neither Josh or CSA are responding to my emails and I just can't put my finger on why. My weather app says "storms" and "thunderstorms" for the next 10 days. Maybe I can get a rain check from Necco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necco Posted July 8, 2019 Report Share Posted July 8, 2019 Absolutely! One page. ( front and back) I already thought about the first 10 lines im going to write. It will be one to hang on the wall!!! Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyAgain Posted July 15, 2019 Report Share Posted July 15, 2019 For the prices you’re looking at you are well in the territory of traditional certified GA aircraft that might better fit your mission...you can take your wife and baggage in a Piper Cherokee 180/Archer and not have to worry about weighing toothbrushes. If you can get an FAA medical you can avoid the idiosyncrasies of LSA. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanC Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 On 7/14/2019 at 5:27 PM, FlyAgain said: For the prices you’re looking at you are well in the territory of traditional certified GA aircraft that might better fit your mission...you can take your wife and baggage in a Piper Cherokee 180/Archer and not have to worry about weighing toothbrushes. If you can get an FAA medical you can avoid the idiosyncrasies of LSA. Just a thought. While that's true, changing the certification of an SLSA to experimental and then getting an LSR-I certificate can save you a bundle in maintenance and annual condition inspection labor costs since you can do both yourself. Maintenance and annuals on a traditional certified GA aircraft like a Cherokee or Skyhawk aren't cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnM Posted August 6, 2019 Report Share Posted August 6, 2019 36 minutes ago, StanC said: While that's true, changing the certification of an SLSA to experimental and then getting an LSR-I certificate can save you a bundle in maintenance and annual condition inspection labor costs since you can do both yourself. Maintenance and annuals on a traditional certified GA aircraft like a Cherokee or Skyhawk aren't cheap. I agree 100%. Maintenance can ba be a large chunk of your annual operating costs depending on the aircraft and model year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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