Hello from north of the border

[Flyboylouis]

Hello,

I’m new to the SC community and have really enjoyed reading through the posts to get some much needed insight. I’m looking at purchasing a 2009 SC. I have attached the link to the ad for anyone to view.

https://www.barnstormers.com/classified-1518860-2009-Sport-Cruiser.html

I have a few questions, It doesn’t appear to have had the nose gear replaced, how much of an undertaking is that in terms of time and $$. Secondly it only has 228 total hours. What are the main concerns that I should be looking at with an SC that has sat in a hanger most of its life.

This is the only SC in Canada so I don’t have a ton of options if I’m not importing. I’d love to make it work but have concerns.

Thanks in advance!

Louis

[Flyboylouis]

Update:

Sorry I’m new to this, on closer inspection of the log books it appears the work as been done. I would still love to hear any opinions on the purchase and any pitfalls I should look out for.

Thanks

 

[ShawnM]

Hi Louis and welcome to the forum. Good luck on your purchase. Here are a few things that jump out at me:

• It does still have the original nose gear and you would want to do a thorough inspection to the leg itself, the fork (which is a 2 leaf fork) and the spindle that the nose wheel rotates around. You are looking for cracks in the leg and fork and to see if the spindle is bent aft. It does only have 225 hours so it's quite possible it's still in good shape if there were no hard landings.
• The TruTrak avionics can be problematic. Check the logbooks for any service records. They were installed by the factory for a very limited time and are now 11 years old. I know of two other legacy owners (pre 2010) with TruTrak and they both have had issues with the units. As far as I know they are no longer serviceable and would need to be replaced with Dynon if/when they no longer work.
• The Garmin 327 transponder and the SL-40 radio are both great units. 
• The GRT S100 SX in the center panel came out after 2009 so if it were installed here in the US when the plane was registered here as N422RB then it was done illegally without a LOA from the manufacturer. Check the logbooks for this installation. Look in the POH to see what originally came in the plane. Likely it was a Garmin 496. The instrument panel supports would have to have been modified to get the transponder installed that low in the center panel. You can't know this without removing the center panel. 
• Have you looked through the engine logbook? Any 5 year rubber changes? Carb overhaul? The gearbox hasn't reached TBO so that's good.
• The ad says the prop has 32 hours TT, why was it replaced? Time limits or was there a prop strike or other damage? It's a great prop.
• I see in the one pic with the yellow card that that is a flap replacement. Check for any damage to the wings area around that flap for damage.
• I see per the ad it has the return line so this is good as it was an expensive SB to comply with. It was mandatory after May 31st 2019. 
• There are a few smaller things to look for but the more expensive one I listed.

I don't know how far I can stretch a Canadian dollar but the conversion rate to USD for this plane would be about $66,500 USD. Given that it may need a NLG, I don't know of course without an inspection, this will be an expensive install because you'll need to add the firewall stiffener kit as well. Last I heard the NLG assembly was between $3000-$4000 dollars. The firewall stiffener kit was free last I heard but it can be costly to get installed because of the labor. Plan on maybe $5000 if you have to hire a specialist to do the work. I have no idea how the rules are in Canada. The price might be a bit high given what it MIGHT need, just my opinion of course.

A plane with so few hours is nice if it was taken care of. Not real good for the engine but if it runs great that's good to know. It's barely broken in with a lot of life left in it. 

I'll keep digging and see what else I can find Louis. I remember seeing this plane years ago for sale as N422RB.

 

For those of you in the US, read the log entries that Louis posted pics of, this is why you don't use an A&P to service your LIGHT SPORT, just clueless. 

[Warmi]

I have the same TruTrak Efis and so far it has been running flawless since 2017 ( when I got the plane, the unit is older than that ) and feature wise it is about the same as D100 series from Dynon ...but , indeed, it is a dead end product - if it dies , you got to pull it out and replace the stack entirely.

[Flyboylouis]

Thanks for the quick reply. The pricing of $85,000 is actually USD. Would that be considered overpriced? It's hard to know with so few available in this vintage.

Looking through the log books there does not appear to be any prop strikes and there have been rubber changes at 5 years intervals which is great.

I have a small retail business with 4 locations all approx 70 miles apart. I have specifically opened all locations near small airports. My master plan is to check in on my stores on nice flying days and have a small folding bike or E-bike fly with me. Do you think the SC will fit the mission well? Did i open 2 additional locations specifically to make purchasing a plane essential? The answer is yes lol

[mikeomaha]

welcome aboard and glad you found this great site . no such thing as a  stupid question here and am sure you will get fast accurate answers

[ShawnM]

1 hour ago, Flyboylouis said:

Thanks for the quick reply. The pricing of $85,000 is actually USD. Would that be considered overpriced? It's hard to know with so few available in this vintage.

Looking through the log books there does not appear to be any prop strikes and there have been rubber changes at 5 years intervals which is great.

I have a small retail business with 4 locations all approx 70 miles apart. I have specifically opened all locations near small airports. My master plan is to check in on my stores on nice flying days and have a small folding bike or E-bike fly with me. Do you think the SC will fit the mission well? Did i open 2 additional locations specifically to make purchasing a plane essential? The answer is yes lol

I personally would be curious as to why the prop was replaced, it was done a reason and I would want to know why. I'm sure there are some who might not care. Given there has been other damage to the plane as noted in the log entries I personally would want more info but that's just me.

As for the price, it's worth what someone is willing to pay for the plane.  I guess I shouldn't say if it's overpriced or not because my answer is only relevant to me. Would I pay $85K USD for this plane, no way. Main reason being the current NLG and the avionics and this is without knowing the full history. There is a current 2009 SportCruiser owner here in the US who just removed all his TruTrak avionics because they were failing (minor gremlins kept popping up) and he spent about $20k buying the latest Dynon Skyview (uninstalled). Add to that the cost of a new NLG, if it's needed, and you are talking an additional $25K on top of your purchase price. Will the Trutrak or NLG fail? I have no idea but for me the gamble is too large. 

It's really hit and miss when the legacy SportCruisers come up for sale. There have been some really great deals out there recently so if you can be patient you might find a better choice. I do know that importing a plane into Canada can take 2-4 weeks but have no idea of the fees involved. I know a guy who imported a helicopter into Canada from the US and it was a smooth transition. 

By no means am I trying to talk you out of buying this plane, if you love it and are comfortable knowing it's history and what expenses could be around the corner then please buy it. I just wanted to share my opinions about this particular plane, its asking price and what I've learned. I hope others will chime in and offer up some insight for you as well. 

Here's a topic on one e-bike in particular. The rear baggage area has a max load of 40 pounds or 18 kilograms. This small e-bike actually fits in the wing locker. 

 

[ronin5573]

I wonder how difficult it would be for him to purchase a US aircraft and then have it re registered to Canada.  Would sure make shopping easier as the amount for sale in the US compared to Canada. They do have a better selection of hockey sticks!! 😅

[mikeomaha]

when buying a used plane see what a new one equipped the same way would cost as a starting point. engine has a 2000 hr tbo and a new one cost about 21k to buy and installation labor. avionics are tricky to figure out how long they will last but you can estimate cost to replace . with high price of new planes, used  planes in good condition can be a great buy. best part about purchasing a used plane is being able to sell it a later at a price that may be close to what you paid for it.  

[Flyboylouis]

On 12/12/2020 at 2:15 PM, ShawnM said:

I personally would be curious as to why the prop was replaced, it was done a reason and I would want to know why. I'm sure there are some who might not care. Given there has been other damage to the plane as noted in the log entries I personally would want more info but that's just me.

As for the price, it's worth what someone is willing to pay for the plane.  I guess I shouldn't say if it's overpriced or not because my answer is only relevant to me. Would I pay $85K USD for this plane, no way. Main reason being the current NLG and the avionics and this is without knowing the full history. There is a current 2009 SportCruiser owner here in the US who just removed all his TruTrak avionics because they were failing (minor gremlins kept popping up) and he spent about $20k buying the latest Dynon Skyview (uninstalled). Add to that the cost of a new NLG, if it's needed, and you are talking an additional $25K on top of your purchase price. Will the Trutrak or NLG fail? I have no idea but for me the gamble is too large. 

It's really hit and miss when the legacy SportCruisers come up for sale. There have been some really great deals out there recently so if you can be patient you might find a better choice. I do know that importing a plane into Canada can take 2-4 weeks but have no idea of the fees involved. I know a guy who imported a helicopter into Canada from the US and it was a smooth transition. 

By no means am I trying to talk you out of buying this plane, if you love it and are comfortable knowing it's history and what expenses could be around the corner then please buy it. I just wanted to share my opinions about this particular plane, its asking price and what I've learned. I hope others will chime in and offer up some insight for you as well. 

Here's a topic on one e-bike in particular. The rear baggage area has a max load of 40 pounds or 18 kilograms. This small e-bike actually fits in the wing locker. 

 

Those definitely look like cool ebikes, a huge plus to be able to have 1 in each wing.

I’m still very interested in the plane, going to try to negotiate the price lower due to the concerns you have mentioned and the fact it’s been on the market for quite some time.

From local pilots I’ve spoken to, it costs about 7k to import from the US which isn’t too bad for the right deal!

Hopefully one way or another I can pull the trigger on my SC in the near future 

[FlyAgain]

There are currently no 3rd gen nose leg kits available.  CSA anticipates 3-6 months before they become available again.

[ShawnM]

2 hours ago, FlyAgain said:

There are currently no 3rd gen nose leg kits available.  CSA anticipates 3-6 months before they become available again.

When they moved the Sebastian operation to Utah, Bountiful bought all the inventory of NLG's to fix the numerous grounded planes they had. 

When CSA finally goes belly up I guess I'll go into the NLG business.  

[Flyboylouis]

On 12/11/2020 at 10:09 PM, ShawnM said:

The TruTrak avionics can be problematic. Check the logbooks for any service records. They were installed by the factory for a very limited time and are now 11 years old. I know of two other legacy owners (pre 2010) with TruTrak and they both have had issues with the units. As far as I know they are no longer serviceable and would need to be replaced with Dynon if/when they no longer work.

Hey Shawn,

I wanted to say thanks for your knowledge on the issues I was facing with the 2009 SC. I just closed the deal this morning and talking about the TruTrak issues provided ample ammo to negotiate another $13k off the asking price. I also had a Rotax mechanic spend 4 hours combing through everything and besides a little bit of rubber everything is mint!

Looking forward to clocking some serious hours in my new to me aircraft.

Merry Christmas!

- Louis

 

 

[ShawnM]

Congrats on the purchase Louis, looks like Santa brought you a very nice present this year. I’m sure you’ll enjoy the plane. Great job on the negotiating and glad to hear the engine is in very good shape. A few new rubber parts is no big deal. 

Merry Christmas as well.