Greetings from South Carolina

[Newberry84]

I am a new member from Newberry, SC.  I quit flying in the nineties after our fourth child was born. Most of my time was in a Piper Arrow that I owned. I started getting current in a 172 in November of last year. I went to see a 2007 SportCruiser yesterday at Twin Lakes Airport owned by a former airline pilot from Islamorada. Dana Lynn, who is somehow affiliated with Lockwood is doing the annual, new rubber, return fuel line, new rear landing gear, and whatever he sees needing fixing. The plane has 600hrs and looks really nice. It does have round gauges, which is what I am used to. Would appreciate any thoughts. $80,000

thanks for any replies,

               Bill

[PilotPete]

Assuming all good mechanically I don't think you will find a better deal so far as price and hours in this economy. The five year rubber and new gear is often a financial stumbling block, so that is good news. Back in early 2020 that price would get you the glass cockpit, but since then those models jumped to the $120+k range. If the aircraft has a BRS those cost about $3,000 repack every 5 years, not sure if that figures in for your plane. As well as ADSB if you fly within the Mode C etc. So hopefully ADSB is included as it costs to upgrade etc. Folks in the forum here will reasonably argue that the price is too high, and compared to three years ago it certainly is, but today is today, and you want to fly today. Seems like you are doing do diligence on the mechanics, and if she checks out I don't see how you could do much better without jumping into the current state of affairs in the $120k Sportcruiser market. The plane is an outstanding performer within the mission this plane is designed for (two folks who don't weigh too much in reasonable VFR). 

You may want to check the forums on what to review and look for before purchase, as I recall there is a very succinct thread on that here somewhere. 

Good luck!

[whiskeypapa]

Welcome Newberry, a lot depends on how the annual/pre-buy goes. It sounds like most of the major items are being addressed before the sale, so that is good. At 600 hours, I believe it is due for a gearbox overhaul if Avgas was used more than 30% of the time, so make sure that is included prior to purchase. Also make sure all of the avionics are squawk free. Assuming everything checks out, that is a pretty good deal in today's still hyper inflated market. I have seen Cessna 150's listed for that, and the Sportcruiser is by far a more comfortable and fun plane to fly. The BRS repack is every 6 years and the rocket is every 12 years, so if the plane has a BRS and it was kept current, you should be good for a couple more years on your repack and a few more years on your rocket. If you take the plane Experimental LSA (if not already), you can do whatever panel upgrades you want later on. The Sportcruiser's mission is mostly Day VFR and with the amazing views out the canopy you're not going to be spending much time looking at that 6 pack anyways! Good luck in your purchase, and let us know if you have any questions. I would encourage you to spend some time reading the prior forums. Most likely the answer to your questions are already here, but this is a great group with plenty of helpful people that have been there and done that, and happy to help however we can.

[Kevin]

Welcome Bill and good luck with your purchase. I just bought one last July so I paid the inflated price also. It was a reality check when I was looking and remember what they were selling for a few years ago! But that’s irrelevant. I love the plane! I’ve had a couple of problems with it and with the help of the fine folks on this forum I’ve managed to keep it going. Hope everything works out for you and welcome to the group.

[Newberry84]

Thanks to David, PilotPete, whiskeypapa, and Kevin. I bought the SportCruiser yesterday. I am trying to read as much of the forum as I can. 
     Bill

[Velocity26]

[whiskeypapa]

Congratulations Bill! It sounds like everything checked out okay with the condition inspection and as long as there were no big surprises, I think you got a great deal. As I am sure you have read in many posts on the forum, most of us here are in the camp of going E-LSA if it isn't already and there is a lot of great info on here on how to do that. The sooner you can do that after the condition inspection the better, and it opens up a whole new world of upgrades and learning that you can do with your new plane.

Please post pictures and any additional info!

 

[Newberry84]

Quote

 

[Newberry84]

The guy in the rear is the A&P, and he suggested waiting a year to go experimental. Is there any reason to wait?

[DavePilot]

Opinions

1) wait to go E-LSA if you think you might sell the aircraft soon.  Some potential buyers don’t understand, nor do some value Experimental Aircraft of any kind. 

2) don’t wait to go E-LSA if you are committed to improving and upgrading the aircraft, all within the scope of USA Light Sport Aircraft.

D

PS - make sure your Mechanic understands both Rotax engines and the SportCruiser LSA.

[PilotPete]

On 2/1/2023 at 2:48 PM, Newberry84 said:

The guy in the rear is the A&P, and he suggested waiting a year to go experimental. Is there any reason to wait?

Speculation: Maybe he wanted your registration for the initial transfer to go smoothly, rather than adding the change to experimental along with the change of ownership at the same time? FAA best doing one thing at a time etc.

[DavePilot]

12 hours ago, PilotPete said:

Speculation: Maybe he wanted your registration for the initial transfer to go smoothly, rather than adding the change to experimental along with the change of ownership at the same time? FAA best doing one thing at a time etc.

PilotPete

an excellent point. 
 

The F, A, and A is totally focused on safety, a good thing,  but SPEED is NOT one of their “things”…

[whiskeypapa]

That is a valid point. In my particular case, I didn't consider that could be an issue, so I did both at the same time and ultimately it all went through just fine. I mailed in my registration the day after purchase. 3 weeks later, I met with my DAR, and he was able to complete and submit all of the paperwork using my temporary registration. About 90 days after I mailed in my registration, it came back from the FAA with the Special Light Sport classification, and about 4 weeks after that, my registration was updated to the Experimental classification. I didn't receive any additional correspondence from the FAA about the change in classification, but was able to confirm it was completed by using the online FAA Registry. I can't say for certain, but it seemed to me that the inspection that my DAR performed went a little smoother than it otherwise would have, because the annual condition inspection had occurred so recently. My thoughts on S-LSA vs E-LSA are below, there could be other reasons I omitted.

Reasons for not converting to E-LSA:

• You will potentially sell to another buyer soon or potentially do a sale or leaseback to a flight school that will use it in their training fleet.
• You are a CFI and want to do flight instruction with the Sportcruiser.
• You are satisfied with how the plane is currently equipped and do not want to make any upgrades or modifications.
• You are not mechanically inclined and will always seek out an LSRM or an A&P to perform maintenance and annual condition inspections.

Reasons for converting to E-LSA:

• You understand that factory support, especially for the early models, is non-existent and want to be unconstrained from them issuing an LOA for modifications, which they won't.
• You want to be able to perform equipment upgrades and add advanced safety features, like AOA, SmartGlide, ADSB In, XM Weather, etc. while staying within defined operating limitations for light sport aircraft. 
• You want to be able to perform maintenance on your own aircraft.
• You want to be able to perform your own annual condition inspections (after obtaining your LSRI-A certification).

 

 

[Velocity26]

Mine was already experimental and it took (7) months for the registration to go through.   I would not expect any swift processing regardless of straight registration or Experimental conversion.  The 90 day temporary registration is a joke. 

[whiskeypapa]

Btw, you have a beautiful plane Bill, and very happy for you to flying and be an aircraft owner again, especially a Sportcruiser. I was also a rusty pilot that was out of flying for 12 years due to family obligations, but got back into it about 2 years ago, and purchased my Sportcruiser about 18 months ago. It is a special privilege we have to be able to own and fly our own personal aircraft. We would be interested in seeing any additional pictures you have of the plane, including the interior, and with the wings and stab installed 😁

[Newberry84]

I bought this plane from an airline pilot who became disabled and lost his medical. After being denied his medical, he couldn’t fly LSA of course, so he had no choice but to sell     Lockwood told him they would not do his annual because Rotax was 15 years old and he needed to replace his engine. He found my guy in SC and had wings removed and drove it to Twin Lakes. I went to see a CTSW, but Dana, A&P, told me that if it were him he would buy this plane. I got an estimate of the annual, rubber, return line, and unexpected things that might have to be done. I met with Dana and owner and negotiated an as is offer and the owner agreed. Dana agreed to let me participate in the annual and rubber. I like learning and doing things myself, hence the change to experimental. Dana has a friend who is a DAR that he is asking about the transfer to experimental. 
 

I really appreciate all of your responses, and I hope to keep learning from the group. Please send any suggestions that you have. 
    
Bill

I do have adsb out

I will try to send a panel view. 
 

   

     
 

[Newberry84]

[Pilot John]

So is this going to become a thing? As these SCs hit the 15 yr mark, are reputable places going to refuse annuals and engine work?

[PilotPete]

Nice traditional six pack cockpit!!! Clean!😃

[PilotPete]

4 hours ago, whiskeypapa said:

That is a valid point. In my particular case, I didn't consider that could be an issue, so I did both at the same time and ultimately it all went through just fine. I mailed in my registration the day after purchase. 3 weeks later, I met with my DAR, and he was able to complete and submit all of the paperwork using my temporary registration. About 90 days after I mailed in my registration, it came back from the FAA with the Special Light Sport classification, and about 4 weeks after that, my registration was updated to the Experimental classification. I didn't receive any additional correspondence from the FAA about the change in classification, but was able to confirm it was completed by using the online FAA Registry. I can't say for certain, but it seemed to me that the inspection that my DAR performed went a little smoother than it otherwise would have, because the annual condition inspection had occurred so recently. My thoughts on S-LSA vs E-LSA are below, there could be other reasons I omitted.

Reasons for not converting to E-LSA:

• You will potentially sell to another buyer soon or potentially do a sale or leaseback to a flight school that will use it in their training fleet.
• You are a CFI and want to do flight instruction with the Sportcruiser.
• You are satisfied with how the plane is currently equipped and do not want to make any upgrades or modifications.
• You are not mechanically inclined and will always seek out an LSRM or an A&P to perform maintenance and annual condition inspections.

Reasons for converting to E-LSA:

• You understand that factory support, especially for the early models, is non-existent and want to be unconstrained from them issuing an LOA for modifications, which they won't.
• You want to be able to perform equipment upgrades and add advanced safety features, like AOA, SmartGlide, ADSB In, XM Weather, etc. while staying within defined operating limitations for light sport aircraft. 
• You want to be able to perform maintenance on your own aircraft.
• You want to be able to perform your own annual condition inspections (after obtaining your LSRI-A certification).

 

 

WhiskeyPapa thank you for the succinct summary! 

[ShawnM]

On 2/3/2023 at 4:56 PM, Pilot John said:

So is this going to become a thing? As these SCs hit the 15 yr mark, are reputable places going to refuse annuals and engine work?

Lockwood is in the “sales” business so they would rather sell you a new engine. Rotax engines go “on condition” when they reach TBO if it’s not being used in a flight school for instruction. Most LSRM’s will gladly work on your airplane/Rotax. Lockwood would rather sell you one. Stay away from the big shops who just want you to leave them a blank check.

[ShawnM]

On 2/3/2023 at 4:46 PM, Newberry84 said:

I bought this plane from an airline pilot who became disabled and lost his medical. After being denied his medical, he couldn’t fly LSA of course, so he had no choice but to sell     Lockwood told him they would not do his annual because Rotax was 15 years old and he needed to replace his engine. He found my guy in SC and had wings removed and drove it to Twin Lakes. I went to see a CTSW, but Dana, A&P, told me that if it were him he would buy this plane. I got an estimate of the annual, rubber, return line, and unexpected things that might have to be done. I met with Dana and owner and negotiated an as is offer and the owner agreed. Dana agreed to let me participate in the annual and rubber. I like learning and doing things myself, hence the change to experimental. Dana has a friend who is a DAR that he is asking about the transfer to experimental. 
 

I really appreciate all of your responses, and I hope to keep learning from the group. Please send any suggestions that you have. 
    
Bill

I do have adsb out

I will try to send a panel view.
 

Thanks for the panel pics Bill. Great looking plane with the traditional six pack. I’ve seen it before on a few occasions.

As for going E-LSA, your gonna have to find a DAR who will accept the changes already made to your S-LSA without any authorization from the factory. The Aera 660 and, assuming that’s a GTX 345 transponder since you said you have ads-b out, we’re both installed without a LOA from the factory and technically void your airworthiness certificate. A simple inspection of your POH and logbooks by the DAR could signal alarms with him/her. It’s very important you read your operating limitations on changes. 
 

That said, going experimental and getting my LSRI certification were the best things I could have done for my SportCruiser. It’ll allow you to legally make real nice upgrades to the plane to lessen your workload and make the plane safer to fly.

[Newberry84]

[Newberry84]

ShawnM

your reply is way over my head. I found this is log today. Does this look legit?

[ShawnM]

Hi Bill, I'll try to sum this up the best I can and no, that doesn't look legit at all but to the untrained eye it may. There are so many things wrong with that log entry.

It's clear this A&P who did the work knew absolutely nothing about light sport and what's required by the manufacture to make changes to a special light sport aircraft. I'm not surprised as many A&P's have no business working on light sport aircraft. There are other A&P's who have light sport training, knowledge and understand what they are doing when it comes to light sport. Most, simply do not, as in this case. This is why I always stress using a LSRM when doing maintenance on light sport aircraft, not an A&P. This is simply my opinion on repairmen, take it at face value. 

That said, since that is the Garmin 335 it's allowed per the SB issued by CSA in 2018, not an issue. The lackluster log entry by the A&P should have referenced the SB since a change was made to a S-LSA aircraft and it has to be approved by the manufacturer in writing. Which this change is.

The Aera 660 is not allowed as there is no authorization from the manufacturer, CSA, to be installed into a S-LSA SportCruiser. There has also never been a SB for it's installation. It's simply not allowed in a S-LSA SportCruiser.

The GTR-225 is also not allowed for the same reasons. To my knowledge the GTR-225 has never appeared in any documents from CSA. The GNC-255 is allowed and is documented in the manuals from CSA. The 225 is simply not allowed in a S-LSA SportCruiser either.

Those two pieces of equipment legally void your airworthiness certificate. A thorough and knowledgeable DAR should know this and not complete the conversion to E-LSA. A thorough and knowledgeable A&P should have also known this and not installed that equipment in the plane.

Here's my reference for what I tell you, please have a look at your "operating limitations" for N855JD. In that document issued by the FAA allowing you to operate the S-LSA aircraft legally it states this or something very close to this verbiage:

"Noncompliance with these operating limitations will render the airworthiness certificate invalid. Any change, alteration or repair not in accordance with the manufacturer's written instructions and authorizations will render the airworthiness certificate invalid and the owner of the aircraft must apply for a new airworthiness certificate under the provisions of 14 CFR 21.191 with appropriate operating limitations before further flight." 

Hopefully this helps explain what I mean. Please read your operating limitations and let me know what you find.