Greetings from South Carolina

[Newberry84]

Thanks for your reply. I am spending today with A&P, and we’ll definitely talk about it. 
Bill

[Warmi]

… won’t comment on idiotic legal/paper nonsense but just on merit alone these were excellent upgrade choices 🙂

[ShawnM]

18 hours ago, Warmi said:

… won’t comment on idiotic legal/paper nonsense but just on merit alone these were excellent upgrade choices 🙂

I agree, those were great upgrades to the old and discontinued 2007 avionics installed by the factory.

As for the idiotic legal nonsense just because you don't like the rules doesn't mean you don't have to follow them. 

[Warmi]

2 hours ago, ShawnM said:

I agree, those were great upgrades to the old and discontinued 2007 avionics installed by the factory.

As for the idiotic legal nonsense, just because you don't like the rules doesn't mean you don't have to follow them. 

I do follow pretty much all the rules even though I do think a lot of it is nonsense , at least in terms of non intended outcomes … I do draw a line sometimes for trivial stuff ( for instance I would not give a crap about getting LOA to fly without wheel pants( something that is apparently required for Flight Design owners )  and stuff like that … at the end of the day it is my plane.

Of course it is easier for me as I can pretty much install any avionics I want , my list of allowed ADSB equipment looks very open 🙂 

If I owned a SportCruiser I would simply go ELSA - life is too short for dealing with nonsense like that …

 

 

What’s even more interesting , I am apparently allowed to install aftermarket Rotax engine mods to add extra power - not sure about doing that , especially given how expensive it is but hey, I would still be legal 🙂

[rtk]

1 hour ago, Warmi said:

 If I owned a SportCruiser I would simply go ELSA - life is too short for dealing with nonsense like that …

Ditto!  🙂

[ShawnM]

12 hours ago, Warmi said:

I do follow pretty much all the rules even though I do think a lot of it is nonsense , at least in terms of non intended outcomes … I do draw a line sometimes for trivial stuff ( for instance I would not give a crap about getting LOA to fly without wheel pants( something that is apparently required for Flight Design owners )  and stuff like that … at the end of the day it is my plane.

It's because of this kind of thinking that new SportCruiser owners like Bill end up with a S-LSA that have modifications that are not authorized by the manufacture. I'm simply trying to educate a NEW owner or a SportCruiser that the manufacturer sucks because they don't allow ANY changes to S-LSA SportCruisers but they make the best E-LSA on the market. 

This is why I asked him to read his "operating limitations" before he goes any further down the rabbit hole. It's far easier to modify a "certified" Cessna aircraft than it is to modify a SportCruiser. 

12 hours ago, Warmi said:

If I owned a SportCruiser I would simply go ELSA - life is too short for dealing with nonsense like that …

This is true as it's the only option for modifications to a SportCruiser.

You know more than anyone Warmi that we've had this discussion here numerous times but since Bill is a NEW owner we find ourselves having this discussion again.

[Newberry84]

I have decided to fly my plane as is for a year. After flying most of my hours dead reckoning and with LORAN,  a gps and IPad will suit me. If you’ve never had the bells and whistles,  you can’t miss them. I am also postponing experimental for now. I am enjoying working and learning from the A&P, who is an experienced and common sense guy. We did 5 yr rubber this week, and hoping to get to landing gear and fuel return next week. He is very busy, but working with me when he can. He talked to his friend, a DAR, about my Garmin upgrade, and he said it would not be an issue to him in going experimental. Never hurts to have a friend. 
thanks to all, Bill

PS. I wrote an earlier post while not logged in, so it may show up too. 
 

[Velocity26]

38 minutes ago, ShawnM said:

It's because of this kind of thinking that new SportCruiser owners like Bill end up with a S-LSA that have modifications that are not authorized by the manufacture. I'm simply trying to educate a NEW owner or a SportCruiser that the manufacturer sucks because they don't allow ANY changes to S-LSA SportCruisers but they make the best E-LSA on the market. 

Shawn, please correct me if I am wrong, if you buy an S-LSA that has illegal modifications most DAR's will force you have to bring the airplane back into compliance for S-LSA before they will authorize you to convert to E-LSA.   In many cases that can mean spending money twice.   There are so many pitfalls that can make you non-compliant that most people don't even realize that are not compliant.  As Dave mentioned  before, simply attaching 2 wires to bring ADS-B into your panel mounted GPS is a violation.   Go E-LSA while you are still compliant, then start to modify. 

[ronin5573]

If you take some time to look at SLSA aircraft on trade a plane or controller,  you will quickly realize that the vast majority of these planes are being bought, and sold every day with illegal modifications on them.  My comment isn’t to the legality of the situation. It only shows that people just don’t care. I also haven’t seen any federal actions of enforcement either. 
So the only group that is reacting to it is forums online.

I have also seen many experimental light sport aircraft that aren’t following the rules as well.  Many are using constant speed propellers. I haven’t herd of any actions on those either. 
  I have a SLSA aircraft with 3 letters of authorization from the manufacturer.  Not all builders of SLSA are equal. 🤷

[DavePilot]

46 minutes ago, ronin5573 said:

 

If you take some time to look at SLSA aircraft on trade a plane or controller,  you will quickly realize that the vast majority of these planes are being bought, and sold every day with illegal modifications on them.

 

1) Agree.    But, of course, that doesn’t make it right.

2) In the Mike Busch article “Savvy Maintenance”,  Mike says

“…. if I have to be regulated, I’d much rather it be by the FAA than by the manufacturer of my aircraft or engine. We all love to complain about the FAA, but at least it is primarily motivated by a concern for safety, and is subject to numerous laws intended to protect us from overzealous regulation.

In contrast, my experience with aircraft and engine manufacturers is that they primarily are motivated by concerns about being sued, and frequently act in ways that are harmful to those of us who own their products.”

That Mike Busch guiding concept is why, especially with a SportCruiser S-LSA, built by (today) the third aircraft manufacturing company (led by many of the same people) after two bankruptcies (CZAW and CSA), an aircraft owner going Experimental E-LSA is simpler, easier, and ALLOWS aircraft owners to UPGRADE  and INNOVATE new ideas for their well built, solid, known worldwide, easy to fly  SportCruiser.  

The E-LSA “Rules” and Regulations are all spelled out for you in your USA FAA E-LSA Operating Limitations. There are ZERO surprises coming from the S-LSA Aircraft Manufacturer protecting them (not you) against lawsuits for X, Y, or Z.

3) While I never expect CruiserAircraft Management to change philosophy  and start allowing Letters Of Authorization (LOAs) for their factory built S-LSA SportCruiser aircraft, 

I AM Interested in the LOAs that you (Ronin5573) have gotten for your 914 Turbo powered Tecnam S-LSA.

WHY ?

Those Tecnam approved LOA ideas may be just what could make my Experimental E-LSA SportCruiser aircraft perform even better !

NEW IDEAS - the lifeblood of an Experimental aircraft owner’s passion for flying.

Thanks

Dave

 

 

 

P&E: Savvy Maintenance - AOPA

 

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2016/april/pilot/pe_savvy

 

 

 

 

[PilotPete]

Love this thread. Thanks to the folks who are spending time on this subject! A good pilot is always learning!

[Warmi]

7 hours ago, ronin5573 said:

If you take some time to look at SLSA aircraft on trade a plane or controller,  you will quickly realize that the vast majority of these planes are being bought, and sold every day with illegal modifications on them.  My comment isn’t to the legality of the situation. It only shows that people just don’t care. I also haven’t seen any federal actions of enforcement either. 
So the only group that is reacting to it is forums online.

I have also seen many experimental light sport aircraft that aren’t following the rules as well.  Many are using constant speed propellers. I haven’t herd of any actions on those either. 
  I have a SLSA aircraft with 3 letters of authorization from the manufacturer.  Not all builders of SLSA are equal. 🤷

My worry would be not so much some kind of FAA ramp check but rather, in hopefully unlikely scenario ,that if I crash the plane or somehow need to fill out insurance claim , there may be issues related to the plane not being in compliance. 

[ronin5573]

3 hours ago, Warmi said:

My worry would be not so much some kind of FAA ramp check but rather in hopefully unlikely scenario that I crash the plane or somehow need to fill out insurance claim there may be issues related to the plane not being in compliance. 

I hear you 100%.  I have just never heard of an insurance claim being denied because someone installed a 345 transponder instead of an approved 335 etc etc etc…..  rules are rules 

[Brudy]

Howdy Newberry84, Congratulations on your purchase.

Mr Shawn likes to throw the book around, and it usually hurts when hit by the book!

My understanding (size 13) is that if it is written in the technical publications by Sportcruiser then it is legal to install in your Sportcruiser. 

tech-publications, IPC, Service bulletins, Maintenance manual, and what ever technical publication by SC I didn't acknowledge here.

Sportcruiser is unique in this manner of what can be installed in a Sportcruiser and how they allow it.

Sounds like you found the right DAR for taking your SC experimental.

Take some time to look into the technical publications, there is a lot of interesting items that can be installed.

If you need an LOA, parts, etc. seek Thrust Flight and ask Patrick what is possible.

This forum has a lot of information, and many great contributors are here and very helpful.

 

Smitty